Interview with Dr. Lana Burgess

Meg Coker: Today's date is November 19, 2015. I'm Meg Coker, here with Dr. Lana Burgess; please introduce yourself.

Lana Burgess: Hi Meg, I'm Lana Burgess and I am the faculty curator here at McKissick Museum. I am also the director of the museum management graduate certificate program here at the University of South Carolina.

MC: Awesome. How would you define your career?

LB: How would I define my career, looking at it from the point of view of beginning to now? Sort of the arc or ...

MC: Or just how would you, is there a particular focus that you've had throughout or how it's evolved?

LB: Well, it's evolved quite a bit. I started my career as an assistant curator of paintings and sculpture. My PhD is in art history and I have a graduate certificate in museum studies from the program that I now direct, so here from USC. I started in museums, as I said, as an assistant curator. I worked mostly on coordinating travelling exhibitions, working with contracts, content development, a lot of the hands on of installations of exhibits, docent training, those kinds of things.

LB: Then after six years, I knew I had wanted to go back to get my PhD and decided to do so. In that role, found myself still working in museums in curatorial and collections work but also was given the opportunity to take on an administrative role working with the museum studies program at Florida State University. I was doing that in addition to teaching and doing different curatorial fellowships and realized that I had an interest in teaching and also an interest in administration.

LB: All of those things combined together brought me back to USC to the position I have now where I teach art history, one course a year. I direct undergraduate theses, I serve on the assistant dissertation committees for masters and PhD students. I teach every class for the graduate certificate program, I administer the program, I recruit, evaluate and assess internships, independent studies, those kinds of things and as faculty curator I work with faculty and staff and students to coordinate exhibitions or programs related to their research area interest. Since I've been here I've been trying to assume the role as museum educator because we don't have one and trying to go through the USC connect program, which I know you're familiar with, to make our collections and what we do with our collections more integral to the experiential learning.

LB: For example, I now have students who come in from the retail classes to talk about exhibit design as it relates to in store design. I'm really enjoying trying to get classes to think outside of the box in ways they can use the collections in their learning. More from the traditional informal of putting on exhibitions and writing content to actually more public and community engagement.

MC: What training, both academic, which you've touched on, and otherwise, has proven significant in leading you to this point in your career?

LB: Well, it's certainly not a requirement for most people in my type of position to have a doctorate but it was something that I always wanted to pursue but I knew I didn't want to go into straight academia. Finding this non-tenure track position was very suitable to my goals and my interests and being able to focus more on the service and the teaching side than the publishing side, I just get more out of public interaction.

LB: What has enhanced my training since I've been at USC for seven years is the opportunity to take advantage of different leadership initiatives. For example, in 2012, I was a fellow at the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University to learn about leadership and non-profits and museums. That benefited me in updating the content I teach for museum management and administration course, but also in the way that I approach my job and interact with my colleagues and setting an example of leadership that hopefully students and younger colleagues and peers will be a model for them.

MC: What would you describe as your greatest success? Or successes, if you wish to share more than one.

LB: My greatest success? Finishing and surviving a PhD program.

MC: I've heard that before already.

LB: Surviving cancer. The greatest success? The relationships I have with my friends and my family.

MC: What would you describe as your greatest challenge?

LB: I guess my greatest challenges would be two. Would be, one, my insecurities about my writing, even though I clearly can do it, it's still an area that I feel is weak and I always second guess my abilities. My other would be, I am a very straight shooter when it comes to things, almost to the point of perhaps being overly assertive and sometimes abrasive in my reactions to things and handling of things. It's a challenge everyday to be mindful and think before I speak when I just want to rush in and fix things or put out the fire, but having to dial it back and think about other people's points of views and coming to a compromise.

MC: What do you think of the current state of your field?

LB: Wow, we were just discussing this in class today. It's definitely in flux, it's at a point where I think some really exciting, new things are going to happen. I am working with two students in your program, both working on inclusion and diversity issues. I think those issues in museums have been talked about or around for the past twenty, twenty-five years that I've been in the field, but only now are we at a time, for a variety of reasons, that I think change may actually happen. Rather than talking about change, I see ways in which change is being implemented a little bit more quickly than before. I think that's very exciting. I think it begs a lot of questions for how the field is going to adapt as far as leadership. There's still gender inequalities, race inequalities, the field is not nearly diverse enough and I hope that in trying to level, or make more democratic, the positions and accessibility to these collections that we'll see a variety of different constituents being able to be employed in museums.

LB: The field itself is in, of course, a financial crisis. I think the American Alliance of Museums is proof of that in that they just left their headquarters in Washington D.C. to move to the suburbs, rent is still very high. As far as the Alliance goes as, sort of, the leader in the field, I think they're making great strides for advocacy. I am concerned that maybe that's happening too late because funding already is drying up as far as federal grants and things and I don't know that one will necessarily benefit or feed the other.

LB: I think museums themselves, while they're becoming much more democratic than a hundred years ago, they're still so many more. The pluralism, the number, the quantity are there that we're continuing to set ourselves up for a little bit of failure in the regard that there's, you know, quantity over quality.

LB: Just the nature of the way that AAM is leading and trying to create a, sort of, big brother controlling structure of the field. I am interested to follow and see how that is going to change the field. If it's going to alienate or isolate institutions and especially institutions such as universities that are training the next generation or if it will, the pendulum will swing back and it will actually benefit that organization as well as the institutions involved. If that makes any sense.

MC: Mm-hmm (affirmative). You've already started to touch on several of the next few questions, but if you wouldn't mind elaborating on them, I would appreciate that. Where do you think your field is headed in the near future? If you'd like to hazard any sort of a guess.

LB: I have plenty of opinions. I am of the mind that, one of the things that I haven't touched on that I think is a real crisis in the field is, again, not only do we have so many museums and new ones being built everyday, but there are more and more museum studies types programs. Public history, library science, archaeology, anthropology programs, certificates, all of these types of programs are just popping up all over the place and it's to the point now where I think there needs to be a real cautious evaluation and vetting of these because they're not all equal and because there are so many, they're flooding the market.

LB: There have been criticisms that boutique programs, meaning smaller programs that serve a very specific group of people for a very specific purpose or region, have some staying power. Whereas, the larger programs that have grown and grown and grown, are flooding the market with people and really while the humanities has always been a not extremely marketable degree, I think it's making it more difficult for people to get jobs even though there are more and more museums and more jobs.

LB: I think in the near future there's going to have to be some kind of reckoning about what qualifies as training, what qualifies as legitimate training. AAM certainly has a hand in this, they are trying to take over training. There is a lot in the literature about whether museum programs in academic settings are valuable or whether you can get what you need through being a part of an organization like the Alliance. I certainly don't know the answer but I think that is an issue in the field that is going to have to be addressed sooner than later.

LB: One of the issues that has been going on for years and years and I think is becoming more and more prevalent is that the libraries are heads and shoulders above what museums are capable of doing. The IMLS has tried very hard to tie the groups together. That's the Institute of Museum and Library Services. The technology training is there in your field, in SLIS, much more so than in the museum field. We're not quite sure where to put that in, how that fits in, so I think the museum field is lagging behind. It can probably catch up but there still needs to be more effort put toward trying to speak the same language when we approach things just slightly differently not terribly differently, and that is going to impact the field as well.

LB: I think the final thing would be the monetary thing in that today's generation don't have the money at middle age that their parents had, the baby boomers and therefore the contributions financial and otherwise to sustaining institutions is going to lessen and lessen and that will ultimately have an impact. Then, of course, sorry, back to SLIS and the museum thing, thinking about digital initiatives and 3D printing and what that means for the future of collections. Is it art surrogates going to replace the objects, should they, shouldn't they, just the larger questions about collecting and if museums should still collect and what that should look like and the dissemination of information about objects or of the objects themselves, I think continues to be a question for the future. I see in many cases, original objects being replaced by new technologies. I also feel like there's going to become a saturation point where the pendulum's going to swing back to visiting these sites again.

MC: To continue that last note, how has your field been impacted by digital tools?

LB: Well, it's hard to answer because the field itself is so diverse. You go to conferences and you talk to people who are in institutions that are still one man volunteer organizations that don't even have any kind of database management system or even a computer, that is more common than not. Then you have very high end private institutions that have every technological advancement that can ever be conceived of. I would say a middle ground would be certainly the goal for most museums to try to digitize their collections. To make them available through some kind of online portal that will allow people opportunities to engage in research which is really the minimum I would say. Then, of course, the American Alliance of Museums putting forth their Center for the Future has all sorts of ideas. From, what, those wearable huggy clothes and all that kind of stuff but in reality I think apps, GIS, and geographical type models like that, the 3D scanning and printing technology that's available are all, those are probably the most impactful and accessible [inaudible 00:15:54] to large size museums.

MC: What do you think future professionals in your field need to learn?

LB: I focus a lot on soft skills in my administration class as well as hard skills, practical skills, budgeting, grant writing, those kinds of things. I think that, and I know that as science continues, research continues to be done that now, I guess, the median age for brain fully development is twenty-five or twenty-seven, and I see that more and more in the students. I guess that's more of the weaknesses is that our students are lacking the soft skills to be self-aware and how to assert themselves and show that confidence and make connections with the skills they have and understanding how to translate and transfer them into other applications.

For the strengths though, I feel like future professionals need to be stronger in their self-awareness, in their critical thinking skills, in managing up and down. Managing other people that they work with even if it's just, not a manipulation, but just a better understanding of how we all work together to work in a team dynamic. Also I still assert that content expertise is extremely important. Knowing the content of what you're working, knowing the differences between the types of institutions and those nuances and how you can adapt things from one to the other but the same kind of thing, like museum studies or SLIS that they can be adapted but they are different enough that ...

MC: That there's adaptation required?

LB: To be strong you need to know the differences and know how to make them work. The weakness, yeah, just the personal, professional development skills.

MC: What are some of the strengths of the field?

LB: In the field itself?

MC: Yes, as a whole. What are some things that you think museums or museum professionals are particularly adept at?

LB: I think that this notion of best practices put forth by AAM and Smithsonian and Getty and other documents and policies and plans. I think they're particularly strong in dealing with a variety of scenarios from the way that collections are stored to shown to dealing with donors and a lot of the legalities that museum folks don't think they need to know when they're going into the field and they sort of have to learn trial by error. Also, as it relates to intellectual property and copyright and issues, I think that the Getty and the Smithsonian and again AAM and ICOM have been really good about keeping pace with those changes and addressing those things and helping to disseminate that information so that we are all held accountable and doing the best that we can that it's respectful to the artists, the collectors and the collections themselves.

LB: I think the training programs. I think this is a young field, you know, coming about in the sixties and seventies and really seeing how it's changed from management to museum administration. Looking at whether you need an MBA or an art degree or some other degree to now realizing that we can all lead and have leadership potential and skills whether we're entry level, whether we're senior position and taking the breadth of all of our experiences, not just in content and propelling the field into new and exciting areas. I think it's much less limiting.

LB: Fifty years ago, if you wanted to work in an art museum you would've had to have an art history degree and you had to go to Williams or Smith. Now, we have people like Deena Simon who has an engineering background, Alison Marsh on our campus has an engineering background but does the history of science of technology. I think just the uniqueness of all of us and our interests and how we combine that is a real strength for the field and the museums are going.

MC: If you wouldn't mind sharing, what's a weakness or weaknesses that needs to be addressed in the field?

LB: I think collections are in a real crisis right now, whether museums are actively collecting or not. Housekeeping, if you will, as some people call it rather derogatorily. Stewardship gets forgotten and sort of swept under the rug because it is so behind the scenes. I think a weakness in the field is an overwhelming backlog of collections that those positions seem to be the least paid, the least funded, the least number of people and yet just managing these hoards and hoards of collections takes much more energy and strength. I think it's definitely a weakness. I think that through AAM and other programs, through museum assessment programs and online learning and webinars, they're trying to address this, but the reality between what you need to do and what you know you need to do and having the manpower and the time to do it, there's still a big gap. I would argue that's the biggest weakness.

MC: This is something I'm especially curious about, just comparatively seeing, is there a specific word or term you like to use to describe the people who use libraries, archives, museums. I've heard patron, client, customer ...

LB: I would describe people as curious.

MC: Also just a term, like specifically for the people, like, let's think of some other ones, patrons ...

LB: I would say visitor.

MC: Visitor?

LB: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

MC: Yeah. That's one that I've heard too. How would you define the relationship between the visitors and professionals in your field?

LB: The terms I would use would be visitor but also, I know stakeholder is a really popular term now, but I would even say owner. We are taught that museums exist in the public trust and that the people who visit them have some level of ownership but visitor is probably much more common.

How would I define the relationship between the visitor and the professionals? Distant? It depends. If it's a casual visitor or if it's a member. If it's a frequent visitor, if it's a tourist, I would say distant or nonexistent from the point of view of the visitor in that they may come to institutions and not see any staff at all except maybe the first person they meet at the door and security officers.

LB: From the professional point of view, I think it's much more than that. In that we are, at least I am, always thinking about the visitor when I'm putting on exhibitions, when I'm placing things, thinking about security, where are the bathrooms, informational signs, trying to provide the best customer service that I can, if that happens without interaction with another human being, I don't know if that's good or bad.

From the visitor's point of view, I think they probably have no idea how many people work behind the scenes and why or why not. That may, again, may help their seamless experience or there may be more engagement that they're looking for. It'll be interesting to see, you know, is engaging with a docent or a tour guide on a tour better, worse, or does it matter than engaging with some kind of interactive in a gallery. What and how does that impact the visitor's experience, their level of engagement and what they take away from it. I don't know. Thesis topic.

MC: If you wouldn't matter elaborating a little bit further on the notion of audience and professional's preparations for an exhibit or the things that you mentioned.

LB: Sure. Well, we take a very specific approach, we follow Beverly Serrell, who has written quite a bit on exhibit labels and the Big Idea. Our approach is, because our galleries are an oval shape and they can't be changed that much, especially in the design, is to take a thematic approach to everything. That's not altogether different from other disciplines who are looking thematically at things instead of chronologically, linearly, or a variety of different methods.

LB: To allow visitors to be able to figure out what the main takeaway, or the Big Idea of the exhibit is by starting at any point and, no matter how little or how much they engage, being able to know what that is. If we are successful we do that by layering information so that we know people won't spend but a few seconds in front of something or a few minutes reading but not necessarily reading everything.

LB: To the end using different color schemes, lighting, trying to anticipate traffic flow, trying to place even visual balance, heavy things, light things, leaving bright spaces just for walking, open spaces so people don't feel claustrophobic, just really trying to engage just natural human being's tendencies towards light, dark. To be given baseline of comfort so that they aren't inhibited to learn so that they are open to figure out what they want to know and what they're here to see without directly telling them, "This is a hat, this is a cow, this is," you know, that kind of stuff.

I think it's obvious to people when you tell them that's what you're doing but when they're in the situation I don't know that they are actually aware that, again, that kind of preparation and time and thinking goes into their experience.

MC: I notice that I managed to miss a question and I'm sorry for having it out of sequence. What is your passion?

LB: Oh, my passion is stepping back and letting students take all the credit, is training the next generation of museum people. I have always visited museums, museums have always been my passion. Actually, as a child, I went to a lot of festivals, not necessarily museums, so even though I always lived in the same place I was exposed to a lot of different cultural things, especially music and performing arts. That just sort of stuck with me. I am probably passionate to the point of anal, which is my name spelled backwards, about best practices, being the best professional I can be, following the rules, setting the best example. Also I love southern culture, food, naïve, self-taught art, those things have always engaged me and kept me here in the region.

Really it's being able to not have the ego that my name needs to be on a book or a website but being able to step away and say, "No, y'all did this. I was just here as the project manager, I was just here as the supervisor but you know, you've done it." That may come from the fact that I didn't have that kind of encouragement and support from, certainly I did from my home life but not from my academic professors and mentors. Just to be that kind of mentor and role model and encourage the students to do the best they can and graciously recognize and accept their successes and build their confidence from that.

MC: Well that's all I have for these more structured questions, is there anything else on any of these themes or just generally that you wish to add?

LB: No. Just that if we did this tomorrow I'd probably have completely different answers. No, I think it's encouraging that you're doing this and I'll be interested to see and hear what my colleagues had to say. Especially, comparing the SLIS to museum.

MC: All right, I'm going to turn off the recorder now.